Things We Think We Think #156


1. The victory over Crystal Palace wasn’t thrilling or stellar, but it was pretty assured. Palace arrived in good form but were comfortably outplayed all over the pitch. The first half was a little bit erratic, with Colin’s Palace successfully stifling City, but in the second half the pace was upped and Palace were eventually well beaten. Played, City.

2. Correlation does not imply causation, but City’s first League win and first clean sheet in a while all arrived on the same day that James Chester was restored to the side and 3-5-2 was resurrected. It could be a coincidence, but it didn’t really feel like one. Steve Bruce has more than earned the right to change the formation and personnel if he sees fit, but one thing the manager has already done well is correct himself if it isn’t really working. A Chester-less 4-4-2 wasn’t really going badly awry and we were close to pulling off a few results under it, worth remembering for the future, but an enChestered 3-5-2 just felt better.

3. So, impressive City, even if we know there’s more to come from the side than we saw on Saturday. But what of Palace? City are a better side and had home advantage, but any side at this level will still regard Hull City away as a winnable fixture. That Palace came seemingly lacking that ambition was very odd. In the first half they ceded possession right up to the halfway line, which made them extremely difficult to break down, but also put them on the back foot to an extent that wasn’t recoverable when they fell behind. Poor stuff from them. But City’s success last season came on the back of putting lesser and equal sides away at home. Encouraging to see that happen once again.

4. We needed it a bit too. A defeat would have left City on 6 points from 7 games, which you’d imagine could have quickly become 6 from 9 with trips to Arsenal and Liverpool approaching. That’s relegation form.

5. City kicked towards the North Stand in the second half against Palace – and with the more partisan supporters now in that area, doesn’t it make sense to do that all the time from now on? It’d have the added bonus of sending visiting teams away from the own fans in the second half too. Win-win…right?

6. Andy Robertson…um, there’s no clause in his contract saying we have to sell him if anyone bids a certain amount, is there?

7. Which is more irksome? The continued haranguing of Fraizer Campbell or the lack of acknowledgement for Damien Delaney, a genuine City hero of the 21st century, whenever either come back to the Circle? Both were prevalent yesterday. Mind you, Campbell did behave like an arse during the game and deserved barracking just for that, not for his past temerity to join other clubs instead of City. It’s daft because he’s a hell of a player, but on Saturday he expended his energy on fouling and whining instead.

8. We won’t waste much of our time or your time on Assem Allam’s Football Focus drivel. We’ve heard this ludicrous untruth-strewn nonsense before, it changes nothing and will not give him a prayer of persuading the FA to change their mind. That they only gave him a minute (from an hour long interview) and then Mark Lawrenson speedily and elegantly knifed his preposterous idea rather said it all. Grandpa Simpson yelling at clouds increasingly springs to mind when we see Mr Allam’s public appearances.

9. Burnley are preparing to charge City fans £37 next month. Football’s autocannibalism nears completion.

10. Meanwhile, a hearty gate for City v Palace. £16 is a good price, one that the club can be proud of offering its fans, and after complaining about £50 against Man C and the subsequent empty seats, it is was pleasing to see immediate proof that pricing football properly will attract support even if the opposition is not of global reknown.

107 replies
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  1. Barney Gumble
    Barney Gumble says:

    Bill, why can’t we exploit our nickname of The Tigers for commercial gain without changing the playing name? As for the tiger being a positive symbol in the Far East I’m not sure that’s entirely true. For example rich Chinese businessmen happily slaughter tigers infront of guests as a show of social stature then eat it.

  2. Tyneside Tiger
    Tyneside Tiger says:

    Quote – Bill Carson

    “As for income, the Tiger is a positive symbol in the Far East, our kit is distinctive and so it is logical to propose that we will attract more sponsorship interest by emphasising Tigers and in turn more money.
    We are lucky to have such a great nickname and if we can exploit this to further the clubs ambitions then so be it.”

    So go ahead then exploit the nickname, bring in all the far east investors desperate to invest in the Tiger symbol. You still don’t, though, explain how changing the name will improve this marketing ploy.

    Why can’t we back the Allams on this one – because there is still not one shred of evidence that it will benefit the club long term.

    If Mr Allam came out tomorrow and offered a free ballot, without any conditions attached and without the threat of him leaving would you want to change the name. I guess not. So why support it just because one rich man threatens to sell the club to other rich people.

    How can it reinforce our history when it rips 100+ years away in one fell swoop?

    Why can’t last years FA Cup final appearance as Hull CIty be repeated as err…..Hull City?

  3. Chunder Monkey
    Chunder Monkey says:

    My biggest reason for opposing the name change? It’s a fucking daft name that’d make us look like small time cunts. Cunts who are prepared to take it up the arse from their owner for the ‘promise’ of Premier League football. A bit like Cardiff fans did.

  4. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    Chunder nails it. The Bluebirds change their colours to ‘lucky’ red. Two mangers later, sitting fifteenth in the Championship, where’s the Asian vote in all that? Are their pro-colour changers, who thought “Tan’s a successful businessman so let’s support him”, pleased with their decision? Has the Asian revenue stream helped them? No, the club has sold its history for nothing and just looks sad.

  5. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Great to see so many intellectuals on this site! It’s like trying to reason with Neanderthals. Bit like Hull City Council.
    We have a decent stadium in the middle of an embarrassing dump. Why hasn’t the area around the stadium been developed into something the City should be proud of?
    Probably because “it’s tradition”.
    Andy I have yet to see an argument for keeping the long and anorakish Hull City Association Football Club Limited.
    Just look at the club shirts over the years, some just have the Tiger on, some say Hull City, Some Hull City Tigers. Many teams have changed their names over the years so this is nothing new, the main thing is that it is in keeping with tradition as Hull and Tigers is what we are. The comparison with Cardiff is ridiculous as they have changed shirts and name.
    If the area around the stadium isn’t redeveloped to accommodate fans travelling in, with decent bars and restaurants then build a new bigger 40,000 seater stadium in Melton.

  6. gjhdurham
    gjhdurham says:

    Baby Chaos: I don’t do Wum posts, so your comment is rather offensive and unnecessary! Nor do I tend to get involved in the name debate, which as can be seen from the above, leads nowhere!! Perhaps you’ve been reading stuff that some one else has posted under my name …it’s happened before!
    On the football front…Delighted with 3 much needed points. Bit surprised that 3 at the back didn’t lead to more Palace chances…but who cares!
    Sadly the consequences of losing out in 2 cup competitions is being felt in the Quinn and McShane stories. Shame to lose either, as Ben Arfa and Ramires are not our players, and how they’ll fit in is yet unknown….UTT. (That’ll probably upset your over sensitive nature BC too!)

  7. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Andy – I commend you for not censoring or editing the posts. However you really need to introduce some etiquette, with people resorting to foul mouthed abuse as a means of reply.
    Hardly an intellectual debate is it?
    Aren’t we all supposed to be supporting the same team?
    I won’t be posting on here again after this episode, clearly your “followers” have made up their single mind and that is the end of it.
    Anyone who dares to offer an alternative perspective is shouted down with verbal abuse…….Democracy???

    As for the football I agree it would be a real shame to lose Quinny and McShane. McShane for his versatility and attitude. Quinn for his work rate and engine in midfield.


  8. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Hully the Tiger – feel free to say that to my face at the KC?
    Andy / Les – I know you guys and I thought you’d be above this rubbish that is posted on here.

  9. Tyneside Tiger
    Tyneside Tiger says:

    Bill It’s interesting that you respond in relation to the “abusive” messages but you choose not to reply to mine #52.

    Pretty sure that nothing in there is remotely abusive or offensive, either you haven’t read it or you’re ignoring it because you can’t find a justifiable response to it.

    Are you leaving because of the abuse (presumably you understand the term “uncensored”) or because your argument for supporting the name change doesn’t stand up to “intellectual” debate.

  10. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Tyneside Tiger – no you were not abusive unlike most of the Neanderthals on here. So I will reply.
    I was not privy to sponsor negotiations therefore I cannot give figures.
    Our brand is unique (we are a brand despite what Mark Lawrenson says) the Tiger is revered in the Far East and it is a creature loved throughout the World.
    The Tiger brand is powerful and positive and so business will want to be associated with it.
    Just look at the number of organisations associated with the Tiger throughout the World, Tiger a Beer, Tony the Tiger (Kellogg’s) , Esso, Tiger Tiger, Tiger Foods, etc etc.
    Therefore it is logical that sponsors would be prepared to pay more to associated with a clear and punchy Hull Tigers rather than the registered club name of Hull a City Association Football a Club Limited.
    So I could easily believe the someone would offer £1m a year more for this right.
    So all of this negativity is sadly misplaced.
    Why don’t the people of Hull complain the the name of the City has been shortened to Hull when it is in fact Kings Town upon the River Hull?
    The latter sounds much more attractive to would be visitors than the dreary Hull!
    Why don’t you complain about some of the extortionate away ticket prices, maybe boycott those grounds?
    Why do you put up with having to face L#%ds Uniteds colours on the West Stand of our ground?
    There are so many just causes to campaign against, yet you choose not to.
    Dr. Allam rescued the club when no-one else would, so why are you all so against the guy?
    This infighting and negativity can only do the club and team harm and the blame will rest solely with CTID when it does!!!!
    Please stop this campaign now before it brings the club down.

  11. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    Bill, I can just about buy that the club may gain an extra £1 million sponsorship by renaming. Just about. But that figure is so, so not worth the traducing of a history that I and many others care about (I get that you don’t care, by the way).

    Personally, I think that Allam is an excellent owner for three reasons: (i) he invests in the club (ii) he chooses a strong and effective manager to leverage that investment (iii) he keeps out of the way of the day to day activities about which he knows little. So I’m a big fan of his style. But his decision to seek to change the name of the club for such an insignificant return shows, at best, a serious lapse of judgement and I oppose it entirely.

  12. Barney Gumble
    Barney Gumble says:

    Jesus, Bill. Seriously, you’re deluded. I note you side stepped my post earlier and maybe that’s just as well.

  13. Paul
    Paul says:

    WTF are these clowns on? If you want to spout such shite don’t post, don’t like swearing don’t come on here, pro-Hull Tigers, don’t come on here as you know vast majority are CTWD. Our club is Hull City, not some new franchise to be created due to an old fools petty squabble. If you cannot see that or do not think that he has lost the plot when you listen to him, then I worry about your own mental health.

    As for comment about away ticket prices, are you really that un-educated? Our prices for some games are scandalous! £50 at the KC for Arsenal, £26 at the Emirates?

    Sell our soul for £1m, I’d rather not thanks. If you feel so strongly let’s hear those Hull Tigers chants!

  14. Bunkers Bill
    Bunkers Bill says:

    ‘Bill Carson’

    How come it has taken you and your mates two years to show your ‘support’ for the name change?

    You say:
    “Just look at the number of organisations associated with the Tiger throughout the World, Tiger a Beer, Tony the Tiger (Kellogg’s) , Esso, Tiger Tiger, Tiger Foods, etc etc.”

    Yeah like Castleford Tigers, Leicester Tigers etc ….it sounds a very common and lousy name to me, unless you have some knowledge of the secret millions they have trousered from Ear Eastern sponsors?

    Why not Hull Dragons?

    Come to think of it Bill, why don’t we change the name every year to coincide with the Chinese ‘Year of the Pig’, ‘Year of the Snake’. ‘Year of the Bird’ etc- that would win us popular support in the world’s biggest country population-wise.

    Have you yourself ever considered changing you own name to Bill Kardashian or Bill Bieber?

  15. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Paul – As I suspected, all anti Hull Tigers, CTID, paid up members of the Labour Party!!!
    So there is NO debate?
    You’re all clones.
    And why is it your club any more than it is mine?
    I’ve barely missed a game since the mid 70’s!
    The truth is the Allams own the club, so stop claiming it as yours, it isn’t unless you want to stump up £80,000,000.
    If you think healthy debate is about swearing at fellow fans then you want locking up.
    You are a disgrace!!!

  16. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Bunkers Bill
    It is you that are the deluded noisy minority!
    CTID cleverly picked a battle cry that was already sung by Tigers fans.
    Most sing it without realising why.
    How about Bunkers Bill :-)

  17. Erik
    Erik says:

    ONE MILLION POUNDS. Seriously. It’s absolutely insane that Allam even considered going through all this shit for ONE LOUSY MILLION POUND. I’m sure the club has spent more than that in legal and rebrand fees already.

  18. Paul
    Paul says:

    Haha now there is an insult for Andy, the labour supporter! John Prescott is perhaps the biggest labour man in Hull, who knows nothing about Hull City cos he’s a rovers fan, and a free loader.
    No clones chump just support for our club, change the name and it ain’t our club anymore, geddit? Understand?
    I bet you’ll be agreeing to this 39th match or whatever the prem league are proposing just to make rich footballers even richer cos it’s not like the money will reduce ticket prices or anything eh? How about the FA cup final being held in a different Asian capital each year?
    Enjoying the football, yes overall I am but not desperate to see premier league, if I was I would go to Man Utd or a different game each week, I support the club I have supported for 35 years, not some fanciful idiotic idea borne out of resentment. Hull CC made the biggest investment in this club by building the Kc and thankfully never gave it away. Allam said today he don’t care about football, that says it all for me. And yes you are right, on the name of our club there is no debate, we are Hull City, nothing else.

  19. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Paul – I’ve supported the club longer than you.
    I am against the 39th game.
    Your argument on ticket prices falls down when you include the £16 games.
    As for Hull CC they are a joke! The Lokeron fiasco showed that!
    The stadium was built from the windfall from the sale of the KC.
    Allam was honest when he said he doesn’t care about football, but look at what he has done for the City of Hull, it’s University, Cancer Research, etc.
    No other club owners would have.
    I just cannot understand the hysteria CTID has created amongst its cult against an owner who has done more for this club than anyone else.
    Enough said and goodnight!

  20. Paul
    Paul says:

    Comment about ticket prices was in response to comment about away tickets, our club is one or the worst for penalising away fans, fact. Makes no odds to an Arsenal fan paying £50 if Stoke was £16?
    39th game you maybe against but that is what people like Allam want, more money making ideas rather than caring about the game and its supporters. In rugby they allow all sort of daft changes and look now LONDON wasps moving to Coventry!
    I don’t care if you have been going longer than me, many on here have been to virtually every game for many years, I go a lot but not away much now. It matters not. You miss the point chump, we want our football club, not some manufactured franchise. The rest matters not but Allam is no saint, to him it is all money. I wish I had £80m but surprisingly I don’t but I do have an opinion and will be here long after Allam has gone, unless the name changes then many thousands will be lost as fans probably forever.

  21. Riochatemyhouse
    Riochatemyhouse says:

    Rather like Allam himself, Bill says an awful lot, without really saying anything at all.

  22. Paul
    Paul says:

    Oh and surprisingly Frank Carson & co choose to not answer points they has no real answer to just hide behind the “it’s his money” bollocks etc. on that point the majority of the cash now is from TV rights which help pay back the loans and interest to Allam house.
    Have those people actually heard the utter rubbish and lies he spouts?
    And I am not a labour supporter but listening to that idiot Parnaby today makes me think of them being a better option!

  23. Bosco
    Bosco says:

    Bill Carson – CTWD have been instrumental in making a stand to preserve City’s name and history, a history that whilst not trophy laden, it is important to many, and one that a lot of the hardcore fans (- who follow City home and away) justifiably want to preserve.

    Allam by his own acknowledgement, is not interested in football and is doing all this as his legacy. He has ploughed money into City, though it is a loan and when he sells, I’m sure he’ll get it back, or a good part of it. He is getting interest on the money in the meantime, plus the limelight (- meeting the blue bloods at the FA Cup final) and a lot of fun for an old fella.

    He has no proof changing the name will benefit City, the one million pound figure mentioned is not much compared to a 110 year old name and history.

    The Far Eastern consumer is interested in the four big clubs only and they buy fake merchandise, etc.. Allam may have done well in marine generator business, but that doesn’t mean he is a business expert and can throw away our history and name because of imaginary money from the Far East.

    As has been debated on these forums and elsewhere, this name change stunt is probably because he fell out with the Council.


  24. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Paul – what gives you the tight to call someone a chump ?
    Would you do this to someone’s face?
    Just another one who cannot debate without resorting to abusive language!
    Les / Andy I am ashamed to be in anyway associated with this rabble.

  25. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Les / Andy
    You have every right to campaign against the name change, just as I campaigned against Fish, Dolan, Cheetham and others.
    I don’t criticise you for doing so.
    I merely wanted to state my point of view.
    Yet your followers have unbelievably turned a debate sour by verbal abuse.
    I’d have got a warmer welcome walking El#*nd Road wearing a Millwall shirt!
    I am ashamed at the abuse on here.
    That is my final comment.
    I will not respond to any further requests.
    We all support the same team #UTT

  26. Les
    Les says:

    Fuck off then you silly fool, your ‘debate’ is stupid anyway. Why don’t we protest the city not being called Kingstown Upon the River Hull? Because we’re not pretentious dilweeds. Why is there blue and yellow on the West Stand? Because those are the city’s civic colours, and it was the city, not a club owner that built the place. You moan about insults and a lack of democracy, then call people Neanderthals and clones because they destroy your arguments. You’re a hypocrite, and clearly not that bright. You don’t know me, and I don’t want to know you, and if you can’t take the fact that not everyone is an Allam cult member and that this whole sorry mess is the fault of one egotistical man, not fans who cherish vlub identity, then take your silly reasonings to a pro-Hull Tigers website if you can find one. I’m ashamed that the money I spend on site hosting gives your idiocy a platform.

  27. Paul
    Paul says:

    Well you are a chump, chump! And Les/Andy are more likely to call you another c word chump!
    Thought you’d gone to bed?
    Still yet to really come up with any answers, or a cohesive argument, hence why you’re a chump!
    And I doubt I will ever meet you William but I would of course call you a chump if you said such silly things in the open as opposed to on here. If being referred to as a chump is abusive you have led a sheltered life, as such I doubt that you have been going to City for 39 years!

  28. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Paul – you may well meet me!!!!
    Les – you are the pretentious one claiming City as your club on the CTID website.
    I’ve followed the club for 38 years but would never be that pretentious!
    Wonder if you’ll resort to this sort of abusive foul language next time your speaking to the Media???

  29. big bad Joe red
    big bad Joe red says:

    Wow! That was a amazing. Was like watching Galloway vs Barrymore, or Crystal vs Alexis. Most fun I’ve had in years.

  30. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    I’m sure everyone’s now tired of this discussion but please humour me with one more post.

    Bill, do you believe that Hull City should change it’s name to Hull Tigers in exchange for £1 million per year?

  31. Les
    Les says:

    What’s funny about Bill’s saying it’s pretentious to think of it being ‘our’ club, is that Assem Allam himself said he was glad fans say ‘our’ in relation to the club and that it is indeed the fans’ club. He has of course said a quarter of a million contradictory things since.

  32. Andy
    Andy says:

    Bill, I’m pretty sure I know who you are, and if I’m right, your City supporting credentials are not in question.

    Nonetheless, people on AN swear, and use insulting language. Such as “Neanderthal”, for instance. That isn’t to everyone’s taste, but it is to that of some people.

    Finally, it’s a considerable leap from “Asian people like tigers” to “Asian people liking tigers will make us millions of pounds and compensate for lost support and revenue in this country”. You’re mistaking supposition for fact. Mr Allam has himself admitted that he has no evidence of research, so he’s equally guilty of this mistake.

  33. Bill Carson
    Bill Carson says:

    Andy – fair enough and ultimately we all just want to enjoy watching City / The Tigers.
    We’ve all earned our stripes watching since the 70’s and 80’s through the depressing Dolan years.

    No offence taken and you’re web-site in the main is excellent!

  34. Bunkers Bill
    Bunkers Bill says:

    Frank/Bill Carson

    “It is you that are the deluded noisy minority!
    CTID cleverly picked a battle cry that was already sung by Tigers fans.
    Most sing it without realising why.
    How about Bunkers Bill

    Admit it – you don’t have any answers to the questions posed to you, do you?

    And neither does ‘Dr’ Allam whose desperation to sell seems to be growing weekly.

    Might I suggest you go and support one of the Manchester clubs when we get relegated?

  35. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    Come on Bill, please answer my question. I feel I’m close to finally understanding the pro-name change case. After all the blustering about getting behind the team etc. the case seems to be ‘it’s his money and the club will make an extra million quid’.

    But you’d be the first person to actually confirm this Bill. Come on…

  36. Mr Muggins
    Mr Muggins says:

    As we already have the great nickname ‘The Tigers’ why haven’t they already started marketing this already in far east? Surely if it was nailed on winner they’d be doing that now wouldn’t they? Wouldn’t they…???

  37. Tyneside Tiger
    Tyneside Tiger says:

    Bill, if you’re still here..

    Just because Tigers are loved around the world doesn’t mean that rich Asian businesses are going to chuck money at a relatively unknown (to them) football club. Presumably they became rich businesses by not being so gullible and naive.

    £1 million pounds…. is that all the name is worth, 100+ years under the same name thrown away for nothing more than a “mess of pottage”

    Why are we against Mr Allam. On the whole the CTWD campaign has not been anti Allam but anti the name change, however with his continued refusal to accept the FA’s decision many people’s views are hardening against him. He has the power to stop this.

    He has done great things for this club. The name change though is not one of them and we as fans of “OUR” club (I don’t care who owns it, it belongs to the fans because without us it would just be 22 blokes kicking a ball around on a patch of grass) have the right to question, challenge and oppose decisions that will effect the club long after Mr Allam is a distant memory.

    Incidentally, I’m happy to boycott any number of football grounds due to the prices charged, I am not a member of any political party, I don’t care about the colour of the seats in the councils stadium and although I choose not to abuse you my contempt for your views knows no bounds.

    Finally West Stand man asked you a simple question, answer it please.

  38. Barney Gumble
    Barney Gumble says:

    I’m afraid to say that our friend Bill is not only very dim and quite gullible, but also very selective of the questions he answers. Its as if he doesn’t know what he is talking about….

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