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Things We Think We Think #153

TWTWT

1. Last week, when rumours began to circulate that Hull City AFC were to call a press conference at which the owner was to outline his plans for the future, we began planning. It’s nice to have articles largely ready to upload in advance, with a few details added as they emerge. The rumours suggested that City’s 75 year old owner, Assem Allam, was putting the club up for sale and bowing out, perhaps giving his son Ehab temporary control and making the de facto situation official, maybe even handing over to Ehab permanently. So we started to conceive an Assam Allam Legacy article. It was positive, too. The name change unavoidably featured, as did his prickly remarks during the affair, but its tone and content was sunnier than expected. He’d have enjoyed reading it. We’d have enjoying publishing it, and saying  fond farewell. But now we don’t need it. We may never need it.

2. Assem Allam’s revisitation of the name change is a supremely squalid act. No evidence was advanced that it’ll benefit City. No evidence has EVER been advanced, for none exists. Assam Allam claims this is not about Hull City Council, but this is simply not true. Somehow, in his mind, a vast, seething obsession with our local council has festered, embittering him to the point at which he is perfectly happy to inflict permanent disfigurement upon our identity, undermine Steve Bruce and reignite quarrels between the despairing majority and the handful of “itshisclubhecandowhathewants” diehards. All to put one over Hull City Council. It’d be funny, if it wasn’t so tragic.

3. The press conference itself was deeply worrying, if not lacking in dark humour. Allam was rambling, incoherent, mildly hysterical and incapable of understanding even the most basic facts. To suggest we’ve been called Hull City Tigers for 110 years is simply wrong. Not a matter of opinion, or a shade of grey, he is wrong. And if he really is that ignorant about the club, or that willing to recite an untruth simply because he wants it to be true, what on earth else is going on in his head? Some of the presser was just horrible to watch. KFC? Pilots licence? Dead bodies? Perhaps he fancies this is colourful metaphor. It isn’t. We can cope with Assem Allam embarrassing himself, that’s an inevitable consequence of him opening a mouth that so many at the club strive to keep quiet. We’d rather he stopped embarrassing our club, however.

4. It’s understandable that people want to be respectful towards and thankful to Assem Allam given the great things he has done for our club, we feel that way too, but we’re confounded when some show they are content to believe anything the man says, even when it’s patently nonsense. Many of the things said at Thursday’s press conference were word for word repeats of what he said to CTWD last year; He wants to make us a top five club and feels he’s prevented from unlocking revenue tied up in the stadium by the Council. His examples of revenue generation from grounds are a Waitrose at Reading, a KFC at Derby and a Jaguar showroom at Coventry. Sure, extra revenue from renting stadium units wouldn’t go amiss, but none of the cited teams play in the Premier League, so the revenue from their stadia certainly isn’t enough to make them a ‘top five’ club. The idea that we’d be propelled up the league if only we had a KFC at the KC Stadium is just ridiculous, and Dr. Allam seems blissfully unaware that Coventry have only just returned to the Ricoh Stadium after time spent playing in Northampton. We were stunned he didn’t know that last year, how does he not know now that a stadium based car showroom has benefited Coventry City NOT ONE BIT? Has nobody in our owner’s inner circle got the nerve to put him straight when he says things obviously incorrect so that he doesn’t look silly saying them in public? Or is he just incapable of listening?

Oh and speaking of the inner circle, where was Ehab Allam during this press conference? The solitary chair put out for his father to face the massed ranks of the media would suggest Ehab wanted no part in proceedings. Now Ehab is just as capable of insulting City fans as his father, he said on Radio Humberside that fans wanting the club to keep its name are selfish, but he at least seems comfortable talking to the press, whereas his father cuts a rather pitiable figure when the script in front of him doesn’t cover on the spot questioning. Back to the point of people accepting every utterance Dr. Allam makes, Ehab Allam told Radio Humberside listeners days before the FA’s decision was made that there was no offer from potential sponsors based on the name Hull Tigers, but on Thursday Assem said a million pounds was lost when a sponsor pulled out at the instant the FA rejected Hull Tigers. Take your pick which of them said something they know not to be true, but one of those statements is a brazen falsehood.

This press conference was ostensibly ‘to clear the air’, but it generated yet more fog (many journalists assumed the appeal was to CAS in Switzerland till the club later said arbitration was between club and FA), and makes it even harder to trust the veracity of anything that comes out of the mouths of the club’s owners. We would love to be able to trust statements from the club, but how is that possible? Yet some people are clearly capable of swallowing vast amounts of bullshit before asking for more, we just can’t bring ourselves to do it, can’t maintain the blissful thought that everything is hunky dory just because the team is doing so well.  It brings to mind this Sunshine Room comic strip…

5. What next? Several more months of bitter argument and uncertainty, for which Assem Allam is entirely to blame. Tonight’s match against West Ham is certain to see lengthy vocal protests against this latest bout of madness, as will all future games. Allam and his apologists probably think they can bludgeon City fans into submission, but that just isn’t going to happen. We’ll instead see City Till We Die return to prominence – and a huge tip of the hat to them for remaining so restrained in the face of Allam’s provocation and the lies regularly aimed their way by the Premier League-obsessed. There’ll be flags. Banners. Arguments. Ill-feeling. And for what?

6. It’s back with the FA. Quite why Assem Allam thinks they will reverse their own decision simply is anyone’s guess. Meanwhile, season ticket holders money is being frittered on expensive lawyers who seem quite content to feed him the fantasy that this is still winnable. We can all see how badly that first defeat hurt. Goodness only knows how he will incorporate a second into his personal God complex.

7. And then what? Premier League clubs aren’t easy to sell, particularly not ones laden with debt and without their own stadium. It could take months. Perhaps a couple of years. All the time during which Assem Allam will remain in charge, loathing the fans, obsessed by the council, ranting and raving and blaming everyone. How can that possibly end well?

8. We’re cross, as can be seen. But we’re also sad. What did we do to cause Assem Allam to hate us so much? He was welcomed to Hull decades ago, and rightly hailed as a saviour of our club. But now he clearly despises us. He has no respect whatsoever. The hooligans slur was close to unforgiveable, but his ongoing refusal to listen, to be straight with us, all points to a man who hates his own customers. Again, how can that possibly end well?

9. It’s now 4½ months since Hull City AFC first promised us full details of the deeply flawed ballot that apparently forms part of Allam’s strange self-justification for continuing this sorry saga. We still haven’t heard anything. Perhaps we ought to contact some of those people the club said they were waiting for replies from? Just to be helpful.

10. West Ham tonight. Give the lads a cheer, and give the club an earful on 19’04”.

77 replies
Newer Comments »
  1. Westhullonian
    Westhullonian says:

    This is it in a nutshell, and it baffles me daily how anyone can defend the Chairman’s constant stream of lies, threats and bullshit. It’s sad how vast sums of money dull the senses of what is right and wrong. The fact that people are willing to change our very name for a pot of gold is deeply, deeply depressing.

  2. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    What a great leadership piece. Gives clear form to the feelings of anger and sadness that I have been feeling since the press conference. That’s a relief for which I thank you. I’m sure it will have taken many hours to compose.

  3. Dub
    Dub says:

    The success of this club is the only thing that matters to me. You continue to fuel the conflict that has the potential to see this club end up in a much worse position than it is now. For that reason I find myself becoming less and less sympathetic towards the CTWD cause. I understand your dented pride and offence to the comments made by AA, but sooner or later we’re all going to have to suck it up and move on. The sooner we do the sooner we can establish the stability we need for ongoing success.

    Hull Tigers is fine, I really don’t care enough about a name to see my club in tatters.

  4. Barney Gumble
    Barney Gumble says:

    Anyone on here fancy writing Allams next press release?

    The fact Ehab wasn’t by his fathers side while he died a thousand deaths infront of the national press is very telling. The man is a coward.

  5. Titface
    Titface says:

    Best TWTWT ever. I’m going to point every Allam apologist I meet towards this piece, sums everything up perfectly.

  6. North stand
    North stand says:

    Well put and as mentioned from west stand this must have taken a few hours to type, amend… :)
    Allams “truths” do appear to sway opinion by distant armchair fans from other clubs but only a few and those who tend to want an opinion for enjoyable discussion… all part of the nattering gossip culture being cultivated these days.
    I wonder how much a third party media group would cost to post positive rebranding comments or even a group in the ground voicing his feelings? Just a feeling from another media attempt talking about the same points.

    I do like the Allams for what they have achieved with their investment, even his stubborn determination but with nothing new to add to argument does he truly believe the ruling will change?

    Thank you Mr Allam for the positives you have achieved at the club

  7. PutneyCity
    PutneyCity says:

    Nailed it. The fact that it’s flushed out so many of City fan Allamite types who are prepared to eat bullshit is the most depressing aspect of this whole sorry affair and one of the main reasons I choose to go to away matches only.

    Equally frustrating is the possibility that, if we’re relegated, the thousands of principled fans who chose not to renew passes will be gone forever and the massive fall in attendances will be used to justify the claim that “it’s Allam’s way or drop down the leagues.”

  8. Baby Chaos
    Baby Chaos says:

    I love a good fight, yet this is weighted so hopelessly in our favour it stopped being fun ages ok.

    Ok look, there’s a match tonight!

    Glad to see CTWD fighting fit, but I’m bored of it all TBH. It ain’t happening and he knows it.

  9. 1904
    1904 says:

    Superbly put and I too will pointing any apologists to this article.

    The one thing I would add is why don’t the press (especially the local journos) pick him up on the 110 years as Hull City Tigers point?

  10. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    Dub (comment five): “You continue to fuel the conflict that has the potential to see this club end up in a much worse position than it is now.”

    Assem Allam brought the coal, the paper, the kindling, the petrol and the matches. When AN or CTWD tries to blow that out, they are the ones to blame? Right…

    “For that reason I find myself becoming less and less sympathetic towards the CTWD cause.”

    The cause hasn’t changed, the source of the cause hasn’t changed, the person keeping it alive hasn’t changed. But yeah, blame CTWD for this.

    And 1904 (comment 11): Shouldn’t your user name now be 1 904?

  11. Dr Seuss
    Dr Seuss says:

    Great article. All points aimed true and to the heart. I’m sure you’ll get the usual responses from the people who desire success over all things and believe that as Dr Allam is a businessman he must know about business. The same people probably equate bankers with knowing about how to make money and we all know how well that went.

    I’m afraid that the only legacies the good doctor will leave us with when he goes, which he will, is a club burdened with debt to a man who hates it and a split fan base who loathe each other. And all this for what? A moment in the Sky showbiz football reality show where we are routinely treated as one of the “little people” who make up the entertainment that the Big Clubs put on show. Do you know what? I’m pleased that we are being very successful at the moment and long may it continue but when we played the likes of Rochdale and Barnet it did feel somehow more honest and clean. Silly I know but sometimes it’s nice remembering that football didn’t start in 1992

  12. Riochatemyhouse
    Riochatemyhouse says:

    The sad thing about his apologists is that when their arguments are deconstructed so easily like the good Officer has done, they’ve nothing left but to wallow in the embarrassment and pity. Part of me feels sorry for them. Fortunately, it soon passes.

  13. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    Yes, it must be the best ever ‘Things We Think’. Do CTWD have cash left from their fund raising? If so, I’d vote to hire a PR rep and get this article out to every football journo in the country.

    I will never get bored of the name change matter. Angry, depressed, but never bored. When all is said and done the name pretty much is the club. I’d be annoyed if any club in the country changed its name (and still struggle to take the name Milton Keynes Dons seriously) but my own club is non-negotiable for me. AND THERE IS NOTHING TO BE GAINED, JUST A HISTORY TO LOSE!

  14. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    2.the despairing majority and the handful of “itshisclubhecandowhathewants”

    The CTWD group have approximately 1,800 supporters, many of those will also be passionate supporters from other football clubs. My view is, many ‘fans’ such as yourself seem to believe you speak for the 2500 fans locked out of BP and wear that badge like it gives you the supreme right to speak over anyone else who hasn’t supported the club since 1904, or who may even (God forbid!) sit in the west stand!

    Allams determination to change the name has divided opinions between my friends who have supported city/tigers since the Hately/Joyce era, I’d say approximately by 50/50. That could indicate not every ‘die hard’ fan is against the name change. If we had Vincent Tann at the helm I’m sure we’d all be out shouting ans waving our banners but we have an stubborn, eccentric OAP who just wants to run the club his way, which on the pitch has brought success!

    I support the club, not the name and personally would rather back the Allam’s than a minority supporters group. If other supporters would rather be in the conference and keep the words ‘City AFC’ that’s their opinion (they may even share many of the same stubborn qualities displayed by Mr Allam) but it doesn’t make people who don’t share their views, ‘glory fans’ or mean they have ‘sold their souls for a pot of gold’ etc.

    If you don’t believe the name change will even go ahead, why add more fuel to the fire? Be the bigger boys, follow Bruce’s wishes and focus your energy on supporting the team.

    Hope you don’t delete this post like a previous one I wrote. For that displays you don’t support free speech and prefer your articles to appear to have the backing of fans who solely share your personal views.

  15. Les
    Les says:

    “The CTWD group have approximately 1,800 supporters, many of those will also be passionate supporters from other football clubs.”

    What is that based on? Guess work?

    “My view is, many ‘fans’ such as yourself seem to believe you speak for the 2500 fans locked out of BP and wear that badge like it gives you the supreme right to speak over anyone else who hasn’t supported the club since 1904, or who may even (God forbid!) sit in the west stand!”

    No, we’re espousing our views, that’s why the piece is called ‘Things WE think WE think’, not things we say on behalf of everyone else’. I like how you say ‘fans’, as if we’re actually not. Ta for that.

    “Hope you don’t delete this post like a previous one I wrote. For that displays you don’t support free speech and prefer your articles to appear to have the backing of fans who solely share your personal views.”

    Do you feel silly now? We haven’t deleted any of your views have we? Some of the comments made before yours show we have no problem with people posting contrary views. Maybe you just spazzed up posting your previous message.

  16. Mr Muggins
    Mr Muggins says:

    Same old League 8 shit… Perhaps you could point me in the direction of an independent Hull City supporters club with a higher membership? Or is there a Hull Tigers fan club I could join?? And no posts are ever deleted you just need to refresh… only Allam like erasing names

  17. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    “If we had Vincent Tann at the helm I’m sure we’d all be out shouting ans waving our banners”

    I don’t get this. You and your friends would object to what Tan has done but you’re happy with what the Allams have done? What’s the difference? You say you don’t support a name, so presumably you don’t support our colours either (both merely being parts of the club’s identity)? You say that Allam has brought us success, but Tan has taken Cardiff into the top flight for the first time in eons and established the club in the upper echelons of the Championship – something the club has struggled to do much in its history (in other words, relatively speaking, he has delivered success). Tan and Allam are two sides of the same coin. They bought the right to do what they want in the eyes of some fans – even if it means stripping the club of key parts of its identity and tradition.

    You don’t support the name: fine. You seem to be working along the lines that Allam can do what he wants. So presumably if Hull Tigers were playing miles outside of Hull in East Yorkshire, you’d be fine with that? They’d still be the same club, after all. Except the last vestiges of what makes them Hull City would have been stripped away.

    And fan opposition is something preventing the name change from going ahead. Not the only thing, but one of the things. CTWD and AN have ever right to oppose it, and plenty of fans are happy that they are.

  18. West Stand Man
    West Stand Man says:

    Jim, for the record, I don’t use this name in irony… I actually do sit in the West Stand – as close to the back as I can get with my 11 year old daughter. I say this just in case your comment 16 “who may even (God forbid!) sit in the west stand!” was triggered by a misunderstanding.

  19. Lee
    Lee says:

    I believe AA assumed (quite wrongly) he’d be gifted the freehold for securing the club. That failure has turned what he considered a safe investment to a very risky one. Should we go down he stands to lose his millions with no immediate hope of recompense. That more than any sentiment for the club drives the financial support his sycophants lap up so eagerly.

  20. Ftcoming
    Ftcoming says:

    I have it on good authority he was told by advisor’s he’d get the stadium and land as a return gift from the council for “saving” the club, so he could then pursue his passion projects (the squash), and expand his wealth by flogging the surrounding land to hotels and the like. Only the council were onto his plans to unjustly profit from the land and realised they’d look like complete tools for giving away something that was built to protect the club and city from in the first place. Allam got pissy and voila! here we are 4 years later! That was why his Barmby conference was all”community this, for the local people of hull that” to try and convince the council he wasn’t as dodgy as they knew him to be.

  21. TDH
    TDH says:

    I am going to write this piece without any prejudice etc. I am not going to reveal my thoughts on the actual matter itself as I dont want to read the vitriol against me, whichever way I lean. “Chicken!” I hear you say. Maybe but I learnt my lesson on daddyorchips.com

    I think that if Dr Allam takes it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, he may well get the decision he is looking for. If he states that it is restricting his ability to trade, they will favour him. It could well be that the evidence required is very little and that this will over rule any authority by the FA.

  22. James Winfield
    James Winfield says:

    Portsmouth and Leeds probably once had fans that thought on-field success trumps all sensible decision making.

    By the way, there is no Waitrose at the Majeski stadium.

  23. Mr Muggins
    Mr Muggins says:

    As the article states arbitration is an FA procedure and nothing to do with CAS who have no authority over NAtional FA’s. Do keep up…

  24. adamhull
    adamhull says:

    Brilliantly put, gents.

    I only wish that the local media dared to question Mr. Allam in the same way.

  25. Bosco
    Bosco says:

    A superb TWTWT this week lads, hitting all the nails on the head.

    Looking forward to 1904 later. It will be interesting tonight.

    ‘Dr’ Alllam is making a spectacle of himself and in danger of making City a joke.

  26. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    West stand Man, when I put (God forbid!), it was like, ‘supporting the club since 1904′ a tad sarcastic and intended to address the opinion of some fans that may believe west stand fans in are not as good as fans in the east. Which is I’d say is territorial nonsense? That comment was not aimed at anybody particular, but is the attitude of some people, is it not?

    Office Crabtree, Yes it is indeed a complex line that people have different views on. I think saying Allam is in the same class as Tan is wide of the mark. Yes I would draw the line at changing colours, nickname, moving to another city. If Allam believes in changing the name to Hull Tigers so much, I can live with that. If he can’t develop the stadium and we built a better one in Melton and not Scunthorpe, I could reluctantly live with too. Football has, and is forever evolving. Like Allam said the Premier League is global business, that’s the way it is. We could have far worse owners (Ashley’s, Tan etc) and have had.

    Les, the CTWD campaign gained extensive national media recognition, the sports media lapped the story up. It would be hard to exclude the possibility; the >100,000’s of supporters from the other 91 football clubs (not including, non-league and other sports, rugby etc) who saw the coverage, that some of those fans would also disagree with what Allam is doing and support the opposing cause by signing up to CTWD. Maybe not scientific, but probable (I’d imagine). That said 1,800 members, although significant, isn’t anywhere near the majority.
    Every fan has a right to their opinions, even someone who has just starting supporting the club!!
    Sorry if I implied you’re not a ‘fan’, don’t take it to heart. I am sure you live and breath the club, but I believe all the negativity towards the Allams is destructive to the success club. I am sure you will feel, Allam started it, and think Bruce is saying, ‘back the club and let the owners do their thing’ because his hands are tied.
    But if it all goes tits up, which for teams like ours flirting with the Premier League all but inevitably does. Passionate fans on both sides of the argument will be arguing about who was right and wrong till the day we die, which I feel is a shame.

    “My view is, many ‘fans’ such as yourself seem to believe you speak for the 2500 fans locked out of BP and wear that badge like it gives you the supreme right to speak over anyone else who hasn’t supported the club since 1904, or who may even (God forbid!) sit in the west stand!”

    The key words are “My view is”, I feel that as authors of this page you’re aware you speak for the fans, the ones on the terraces, the real fans. The comments show many people share your sentiments, which must be rewarding and encourage you to share your opinions. I enjoy reading the articles and I’m always interested in other peoples views, glad to have the discussion.
    Just football can be elitist, who was where and when. I think that intimidates some people and puts a lot of potential new fans off supporting clubs.

    Don’t want to be petty but I posted once on here (with my competent IT skills), the post appeared then was removed, for whatever reason. But I don’t feel silly, maybe feeling silly is half of the point for the anti Allam fans, the term ‘made a laughing stock’ is frequently heard. A Grimsby fan I spoke to last weekend wasn’t teasing me for supporting a team who are trying to alter their name, he was wondering why the fans aren’t united in supporting a club that is experiencing unprecedented success!

    Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post

  27. Riochatemyhouse
    Riochatemyhouse says:

    And therein lies the rub. We’re not united behind the club and it’s unprecedented success because of one man, and the sooner EVERYONE realises that, the better.

  28. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    “Football has, and is forever evolving”

    This is not evolution. You don’t control evolution. Evolution isn’t this sudden. This is quite simply ‘change’ to get back at a local council, and it has been continued so as not to lose face. Change can be a good thing, when done for the right reasons. But change along these lines, as is being demonstrated every time Assem Allam opens his mouth, is divisive, destructive and downright unnecessary.

    And you think our colours are more important than our name? Again, each to their own, but that sort of thinking does baffle me. How colours are more indicative of an identity than an actual name is thinking I just can’t get my head around. But then you’d happily move to a ground a few miles away from the city the club represents, beyond even the greater Hull conurbation. Again, I just don’t get that. We’d be playing further away from Hull than North Ferriby. If the price of success is the club becoming unrecognisable from what I fell in love with then I can live with us not playing at this level.

  29. Les
    Les says:

    That stuff about football evolving is the sort of thing I mean when I wrote about people willingly swallowing bullshit.

    In the press conference, Allam made the point several times that when a team goes from Championship to Premier League they make the transition from a local team to a global team and must act accordingly. But let’s examine that, what teams, since the Premier League has existed, have been promoted and changed their name to ‘become global’? Not one. Do all of their owners just lack Allam’s vision and business nous? Seems unlikely, since all Premier League owners have been/are successful businessmen.

    You have Cardiff as the obvious example of a club who made a stark identity change to appeal to a foreign market, and how has that worked exactly? They’ve been relegated and there have been no reports of beneficial support in Malaysia. It’s been for nothing, or more accurately, it’s been for nothing more than placating one man’s ego. Now THAT, is where Tan and Allam are similar.

  30. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    Officer Crabtree & Les, I don’t mind being called ‘Hull Tigers’, i like our nickname ‘Tigers’, the black and amber. The fine line is, if our nickname was ‘Cottagers’…. then I would be No to Hull Cottagers!! Sorry if (in you views) that as a contradiction.

    But on reflection I am a man of principle too, if Allam did a Tan and changed things I was dead against. I would not be saying “stay as the owner and keep ploughing money in, but please drop the Hull Tigers nonsense”. I would demand ALLAM OUT!!
    Allam has made it clear that he will either change the name or step down, so why don’t supporters of ‘No to Hull Tigers’ just call for him to leave now? Seems the majority of the ‘No campaign’ want it all their own way; the mans money and for him to change his vision for the club. If these people really have principles, either back him or call for him to step down.
    I have a lot more respect for the posters on here that just want him to leave now.

    So yes, it is all a shame. We have been handed the best success in our history and it only has two similar outcomes. Allam either leaves, or is hounded out of town because he wants some love and respect for his actions, that right or wrongly, he believes are for the best interests of the club. If I was him, and b(r)ought this kinda of success at 75 years of age, I maybe confused.

    We can only be certain it is a bad idea if we change the name, then inevitably the next owners that come along will change it back. One side has to be the bigger man and back down.

    Clubs move stadiums, the premier ‘Bud Lager’ league, championship players costing £10,000,000. Stripes one year, next year without. For good or for bad, the world (and professional football) is evolving all the time, most often out of the individuals hands. We are all part of it we are but cannot control everything. I know some will just see this bit as nonsense but in the words of the great Bill Hicks,

    “The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it you think it’s real because that’s how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it’s very brightly coloured and it’s very loud and it’s fun, for a while.
    Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: “Is this real, or is this just a ride?” And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, “Hey, don’t worry, don’t be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride.” And we kill those people.”

  31. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    As far as I’m aware/concerned, the lack of ‘Allam out!’ demands has been as much a part of keeping the campaign respectful and avoid the personal/abusive side of things that we saw in the past, aimed at the likes of Martin Fish. Saying ‘please reconsider’ generally gets you further in life than saying ‘please fuck off’. My initial feeling was that Allam would be prepared to reconsider/compromise, and the tone and message sent out was in keeping with that. As it turns out, trying to do things that way was fairly pointless.

    I don’t think many are saying ‘keep ploughing money in’ as you state, however. Look at any of the respective threads on here, City Independent or Not606. You will see a hell of a lot of people who sympathise with the CTWD way of things voicing concerns over our level of debt to Allamhouse, our spiralling wage bill and the unsustainability of it all. I don’t know of many people who want us to keep driving up our spectacular debts for the cost of seeing a few global megastars every few weeks. We’ve seen where that gets us.

    I don’t get why someone has to back down, either. Is that the way to deal with disagreements or principles? One lot just backs down? Again, you live in a world of weird values, jimshady. I’m glad that when it comes to such matters I’m on a different planet to you.

  32. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    So, I don’t believe that I am willingly swallowing the bullshit, I’d say that you guys are by attending games and giving money to the club and hence the PL.

  33. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    Officer, I don’t believe people should back down and throw away their values. But Allam Is not going to negotiate, that is not how I would deal with the situation if I was in his position. I would have said it isn’t worth the hassle, because of the opposition and I’d rather we have no off pitch distractions. I just don’t believe calling us Hull Tigers is the end of the world, or football as we know it.

  34. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    Jimshady, you write: “I don’t believe people should back down and throw away their values”, yet in your previous posting you write: “One side has to be the bigger man and back down.” I’m really getting confused now. Which is it?

    Allam may not be about to negotiate, but it isn’t actually his call on what the club is named. He signed up to the FA’s criteria when he bought the club, and they call the shots on this one.

    I don’t think being called Hull Tigers is the end of the world or football as we know it either. I just think it’s a deeply undesirable thing, done for pretty odious reasons. And to me, what it represents significantly affects the identity of the first thing I fell in love with, it tramples over the traditions that I personally hold dear for many, many reasons, and the poisonous way in which it is being done makes me feel less attached to the club than I’ve ever felt. Those are my reason (and those of many, many others). You don’t share them. Fair enough. But I’m not going to back down. I’m not going to change for what you mistakenly believe to be ‘evolution’, and I’m going to fight for something that I care about. If the price of that is pissing off the Allams, then so be it. There are bigger things at stake than our ‘success’ for me.

  35. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    If you want an answer to that check back later as I have over engagements to attend to, thanks for your views tho

  36. Erik
    Erik says:

    Please AN, can you make a write-up detailing ALL the things he’s said that is patently wrong? So we can ship it off to the news everywhere.

  37. JohnK
    JohnK says:

    If I want to read about Communism I read the Morning Star, if I want a one sided view of the name change debacle I read Amber Nectar.
    Did anybody see the article in yesterdays Mail on Sunday? Seemed to do a very nice job of putting some common sense to this debate.
    The fact is that the tide of change has turned against the anti name change charge and quite simply because the club is developing and moving forward, hopefully turning its back on the days were no investment was made and success was a lower league play off place. This is the sacrifice that we have to make for a potential name change, not much of one for me and yes the vast majority of City fans, that quite frankly don’t have it in their character to be protesters they just get on with being positively supportive and enjoying what we have and what we could have.
    I know people reading this won’t like it but you can always exercise your ultimate right and just stop supporting the club. Ferriby Utd. look like an interesting alternative and I am sure they will be grateful for your revenue and your support, let’s just hope they don’t make a decision on some kind of policy you don’t like.

  38. Mr Muggins
    Mr Muggins says:

    John, don’t read Amber Nectar then you soft cunt. For similar reasons i wouldn’t go near the MoS with a shitty stick…

  39. Baby Chaos
    Baby Chaos says:

    Fucking hell, Bill Hicks. We’ve reached freshers week levels of debate.

    I love decent arguments but this is cunts cunting about like cunts.

  40. Les
    Les says:

    What do you read when you want to read one sided Hull Tigers propaganda John? Not quite sure how you can sense how the tide is turning from where you are, unless you base it on one Mail on Sunday piece.

  41. ruisliptiger
    ruisliptiger says:

    The sad thing is that the Council realy couldn’t give a shit what we’re called. Still, I’m sure Allam will claim he looks better without a nose anyway.

  42. Tyneside Tiger
    Tyneside Tiger says:

    It’s simple. The club represents the CITY of Kingston upon Hull. Hence the teams name for the past 104 years or so.

    You don’t change that without incredibly sound reasons and full and open consultation of your customers.

    The reasons have never existed, the consulation has never taken place. Yet people still go along with it because we happen to be doing quite well on the pitch.

    They have no understanding of what a football club should be. They have no thoughts for past or future generations of football fans. They have NO soul.

    I want to hate them but instead I pity them.

  43. Paul
    Paul says:

    Nah hate them, don’t waste pity on them. Plastic premier league, great isn’t it! Away at Newcastle, their owner has spent £200m and they went nuts at him changing the stadium name. Some of our “fans” happy to sell soul of club for the sake of one rich madman, who’s son said today that they don’t really care about the club as they are not fans…..
    Hull Tigers, stick it where the sun don’t shine you pathetic plastic twats

  44. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    “The fact is that the tide of change has turned against the anti name change charge and quite simply because the club is developing and moving forward, hopefully turning its back on the days were no investment was made and success was a lower league play off place. This is the sacrifice that we have to make for a potential name change, not much of one for me and yes the vast majority of City fans, that quite frankly don’t have it in their character to be protesters they just get on with being positively supportive and enjoying what we have and what we could have.”

    All done as Hull City, JohnK. All done as Hull City. We are still Hull City, and Allam’s appeal will fail. The tide isn’t turning at all. A handful of boos from the West Stand and a click-bating article in a rag like the Mail on Sunday changes very little.

    The very fact that you suggest we support someone else shows what kind of football fan you are. It’s Hull City or no one for me and every anti-name change supporter I know. That’s what loyalty and stuff like that does to you. I wonder if those booing last night will be able to say the same should the more difficult times come back. Or will they’ll shuffle off back to Elland Road, Old Trafford or their Saturday afternoons in the company of Jeff, Merse and Thommo? Iterseting you mention Ferriby though. You’ll get to pass their ground on the train as you head to ‘Hull’ Tigers games in Melton.

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