FEAT-TWTWT

Things We Think We Think #153

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1. Last week, when rumours began to circulate that Hull City AFC were to call a press conference at which the owner was to outline his plans for the future, we began planning. It’s nice to have articles largely ready to upload in advance, with a few details added as they emerge. The rumours suggested that City’s 75 year old owner, Assem Allam, was putting the club up for sale and bowing out, perhaps giving his son Ehab temporary control and making the de facto situation official, maybe even handing over to Ehab permanently. So we started to conceive an Assam Allam Legacy article. It was positive, too. The name change unavoidably featured, as did his prickly remarks during the affair, but its tone and content was sunnier than expected. He’d have enjoyed reading it. We’d have enjoying publishing it, and saying  fond farewell. But now we don’t need it. We may never need it.

2. Assem Allam’s revisitation of the name change is a supremely squalid act. No evidence was advanced that it’ll benefit City. No evidence has EVER been advanced, for none exists. Assam Allam claims this is not about Hull City Council, but this is simply not true. Somehow, in his mind, a vast, seething obsession with our local council has festered, embittering him to the point at which he is perfectly happy to inflict permanent disfigurement upon our identity, undermine Steve Bruce and reignite quarrels between the despairing majority and the handful of “itshisclubhecandowhathewants” diehards. All to put one over Hull City Council. It’d be funny, if it wasn’t so tragic.

3. The press conference itself was deeply worrying, if not lacking in dark humour. Allam was rambling, incoherent, mildly hysterical and incapable of understanding even the most basic facts. To suggest we’ve been called Hull City Tigers for 110 years is simply wrong. Not a matter of opinion, or a shade of grey, he is wrong. And if he really is that ignorant about the club, or that willing to recite an untruth simply because he wants it to be true, what on earth else is going on in his head? Some of the presser was just horrible to watch. KFC? Pilots licence? Dead bodies? Perhaps he fancies this is colourful metaphor. It isn’t. We can cope with Assem Allam embarrassing himself, that’s an inevitable consequence of him opening a mouth that so many at the club strive to keep quiet. We’d rather he stopped embarrassing our club, however.

4. It’s understandable that people want to be respectful towards and thankful to Assem Allam given the great things he has done for our club, we feel that way too, but we’re confounded when some show they are content to believe anything the man says, even when it’s patently nonsense. Many of the things said at Thursday’s press conference were word for word repeats of what he said to CTWD last year; He wants to make us a top five club and feels he’s prevented from unlocking revenue tied up in the stadium by the Council. His examples of revenue generation from grounds are a Waitrose at Reading, a KFC at Derby and a Jaguar showroom at Coventry. Sure, extra revenue from renting stadium units wouldn’t go amiss, but none of the cited teams play in the Premier League, so the revenue from their stadia certainly isn’t enough to make them a ‘top five’ club. The idea that we’d be propelled up the league if only we had a KFC at the KC Stadium is just ridiculous, and Dr. Allam seems blissfully unaware that Coventry have only just returned to the Ricoh Stadium after time spent playing in Northampton. We were stunned he didn’t know that last year, how does he not know now that a stadium based car showroom has benefited Coventry City NOT ONE BIT? Has nobody in our owner’s inner circle got the nerve to put him straight when he says things obviously incorrect so that he doesn’t look silly saying them in public? Or is he just incapable of listening?

Oh and speaking of the inner circle, where was Ehab Allam during this press conference? The solitary chair put out for his father to face the massed ranks of the media would suggest Ehab wanted no part in proceedings. Now Ehab is just as capable of insulting City fans as his father, he said on Radio Humberside that fans wanting the club to keep its name are selfish, but he at least seems comfortable talking to the press, whereas his father cuts a rather pitiable figure when the script in front of him doesn’t cover on the spot questioning. Back to the point of people accepting every utterance Dr. Allam makes, Ehab Allam told Radio Humberside listeners days before the FA’s decision was made that there was no offer from potential sponsors based on the name Hull Tigers, but on Thursday Assem said a million pounds was lost when a sponsor pulled out at the instant the FA rejected Hull Tigers. Take your pick which of them said something they know not to be true, but one of those statements is a brazen falsehood.

This press conference was ostensibly ‘to clear the air’, but it generated yet more fog (many journalists assumed the appeal was to CAS in Switzerland till the club later said arbitration was between club and FA), and makes it even harder to trust the veracity of anything that comes out of the mouths of the club’s owners. We would love to be able to trust statements from the club, but how is that possible? Yet some people are clearly capable of swallowing vast amounts of bullshit before asking for more, we just can’t bring ourselves to do it, can’t maintain the blissful thought that everything is hunky dory just because the team is doing so well.  It brings to mind this Sunshine Room comic strip…

5. What next? Several more months of bitter argument and uncertainty, for which Assem Allam is entirely to blame. Tonight’s match against West Ham is certain to see lengthy vocal protests against this latest bout of madness, as will all future games. Allam and his apologists probably think they can bludgeon City fans into submission, but that just isn’t going to happen. We’ll instead see City Till We Die return to prominence – and a huge tip of the hat to them for remaining so restrained in the face of Allam’s provocation and the lies regularly aimed their way by the Premier League-obsessed. There’ll be flags. Banners. Arguments. Ill-feeling. And for what?

6. It’s back with the FA. Quite why Assem Allam thinks they will reverse their own decision simply is anyone’s guess. Meanwhile, season ticket holders money is being frittered on expensive lawyers who seem quite content to feed him the fantasy that this is still winnable. We can all see how badly that first defeat hurt. Goodness only knows how he will incorporate a second into his personal God complex.

7. And then what? Premier League clubs aren’t easy to sell, particularly not ones laden with debt and without their own stadium. It could take months. Perhaps a couple of years. All the time during which Assem Allam will remain in charge, loathing the fans, obsessed by the council, ranting and raving and blaming everyone. How can that possibly end well?

8. We’re cross, as can be seen. But we’re also sad. What did we do to cause Assem Allam to hate us so much? He was welcomed to Hull decades ago, and rightly hailed as a saviour of our club. But now he clearly despises us. He has no respect whatsoever. The hooligans slur was close to unforgiveable, but his ongoing refusal to listen, to be straight with us, all points to a man who hates his own customers. Again, how can that possibly end well?

9. It’s now 4½ months since Hull City AFC first promised us full details of the deeply flawed ballot that apparently forms part of Allam’s strange self-justification for continuing this sorry saga. We still haven’t heard anything. Perhaps we ought to contact some of those people the club said they were waiting for replies from? Just to be helpful.

10. West Ham tonight. Give the lads a cheer, and give the club an earful on 19’04”.

77 replies
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  1. Legoman
    Legoman says:

    OK, bear with me. I am personally very much in the No to Hull Tigers camp and I don’t think I could be swayed under any argument as I simply can’t stand that name. However I don’t understand why any of those supporters who don’t particularly mind the name change aren’t demanding the proof that it will be good for us – why accept change for no reason? I understand that there are some fans who just want Mr Allam to stay and will accept anything to do that – I think that’s wrong, but I at least see their reasoning.

    But surely if he just came along with some evidence with some actual proof that it will improve things instead of simply (in all but coming out and blatantly stating it) hinting that it is actually all about his dislike of the council? If he did this then he would gain support for his cause. The only thing to take from the lack of this is that he simply has no proof and he has no idea of how he could show proof in the first place.

    Again, if you like and want the name change fine.

    If you don’t mind it, OK, but if there is no proof it will actually help in any way then why should we bother changing? It’s just causing arguments between fans which is unnecessary. How good would the last two seasons have been had this issue not surfaced in the first place?

    Then the final option is if you don’t like it, which makes the lack of proof/evidence massively infuriating as we seem to have a decent argument against it while the opposing argument has no clear merit other than keeping Mr Allam happy, which for me is simply not enough reason… especially considering that he has repeatedly shown that he has no particular feeling of good will towards the fans himself – shown by his repeated lies to the fans, slurs against the fans and lack of consideration for the fans in general.

    Think how incredible these two years could have been – I’ve watched A LOT of terrible Hull City games (and a lot of good ones). It is almost typicalCity that we have had the best years of our entire footballing history to date and yet a vast amount of the supporters who have been waiting for this time simply haven’t been able to enjoy it.

    All the pro name change comments suggest we just accept the change, however I cannot back down from a disagreement when the opposition argument has little to no proof for their argument.

  2. Mr Muggins
    Mr Muggins says:

    There you go talking common sense again… I’m sure someone will be along shortly to start booing…

  3. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    “All the pro name change comments suggest we just accept the change, however I cannot back down from a disagreement when the opposition argument has little to no proof for their argument.”

    This. Well put Legoman. Sums things up nicely.

  4. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    Jimshady, you write: “I don’t believe people should back down and throw away their values”, yet in your previous posting you write: “One side has to be the bigger man and back down.” I’m really getting confused now. Which is it?

    Back down AND throw away your values, not OR. I believe you can back down and keep your values, in life it happens all the time. For example, if you voted Labour (or possibly UKIP for some cunting, cunting posters on here with no constructive comments) and get a Tory
    /Lib Dem coalition, you could accept it and you can still keep your values (that’s what most people do). Or you could leave the country and find somewhere that shares your values. Or you can protest and demand the powers that be step down or change their position (that’s what Allam would do). I understand that could lead to more confusion, but not everything in the world is just black or white.

    I’ve said what I would do if I was against the name change or if I was in Allams position, I ain’t just going along with it. I like the name “Hull Tigers” and thing it’s worth giving it a go, that is also the only way it can be proved if it would bring in more investment.

    And some don’t want the investment or loan from Allam Marine?? Don’t want to spend £10,000,000 current international players? Well I like the PL and welcome the investment, I enjoyed watching City play in the lower leagues but have grown to like watching top quality football and want to keep watching it. People who would rather be watching Hull ‘City’ in the lower leagues just baffle me?? But again that’s ‘my’ opinion, I understand not one that’s widely welcomed here on, “Things WE Think”.

    Can I ask this? If lending yourself £100,000,000 at 5% per year interest is such good business sense. Why aren’t other muti-millionaires queuing up to buy the club (or every other club) outright for £100,000,000 with the same interest rate or even higher? I don’t proclaim to know the answer to this. Just can’t imagine business advisers saying, “Hey, I’ve got a great way to make money, invest it into a football club with no assets, that could be worth shit all in league 1 in two years time”.

    It’s very naive to think Allam has no chance of wining an appeal, hiring expensive lawyers who line up to take ‘our’ money, is probably what Allam should have done the first time round. I mean, expensive lawyers never turn around the most improbable cases OJ!
    62% of the FA committee were against the initial proposal, that means quite a few people who voted were for it. I can only foresee the improved appeall gaining more votes for the name change.

    As my initial post queried, 1,800 CTWD supporters against the name change is not a lot from the 30,000+ genuine Hull City supporters across the globe. The “No to Hull Tigers” brigade can keep your values but where are they getting you, the fans who support the Allams have let you have your say, it is now becoming disruptive and I for one am getting tired of it all. Judging by the Boo’s!! (which I don’t support, I propose, “Tigers! Tigers!” would be more appropriate) so are a lot of other people who just want to enjoy the match and support their team regardless of a minor change to their historic name.

  5. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    It’s not about proof or going along with it. Most fans support the Allams and are not offended by the idea of being called “Hull Tigers”.

    Times change and it’s always going to upset a minority. I used to like buying vinyl records, now I prefer to stream music on Spotify. A minority still prefer to purchase vinyl, the majority prefer to stream it. Some traditionalists believe that music should just be heard live and would not even listen to recorded music!!

    I remember one old timer I worked with who wouldn’t watch an England World Cup game because it was broadcast on ITV! (he listened to it on the radio instead) That’s values!!

  6. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    A ‘minor’ name change? Hull City to Hull Tigers a minor name change? How do you work that one out?

    And with the appeal, not quite naive. I know a lawyer who specialises against this sort of thing, and an expert in European law – and I don’t use the word expert lightly. Both cannot even begin to see Allam’s grounds for appeal. Plus there’s the stuff posted by Obidiah on City Independent. Even a layman reading that would struggle to see where the appeal is coming from. But yes, expensive lawyers will happily part Allam with his money. There’s a saying about that. You seem to totally misunderstand the process of the appeal too. The FA members who voted on it in April won’t simply resubmit their votes.

    As for your other points, your example of backing down and keeping your values just leaves me perplexed. I suspect that’s because it’s painfully wrong-headed but I’ll give it another seven or eight reads to see if I can find a point in it.

    As for the debt, several businessmen and women do lend money between companies and charge interest. Previous Hull City chairmen/owners have done it. It’s legal but a worrying route to go down in my view, particularly when the figures are so high. That’s why some – myself included – have reservations about how much we’re paying for players in transfer fees and wages. The Allams are wealthy, but not wealthy enough to bankroll this kind of spending. We’ve seen what happens when you’re on your knees financially due to profligate spending in the Premier League.

    Most of your posts seem to be based around your taking everything Allam says at face value and trusting him 100%. I’d say this is naive, particularly upon listening to his press conferences. One thing I do agree on is that I’m tired of the whole thing, however. You, jimshady, watch an entirely different sport to me and support an entirely different club to me. You’re no doubt happy in your world, but I’m as glad as hell it’s not one I inhabit as I really don’t get this slavish devotion to a man’s money, over and above the club’s traditions and history. You may end up winning. You may end up enjoying watching your Hull Tigers in Melton in complete silence along with the rest of the ‘majority’, having your day brightened by the extra £2m a season the name change has brought in. Good luck to you. I’ve too much respect for myself to let it come to that.

  7. Officer Crabtree
    Officer Crabtree says:

    Just to add, incredulously, because vinyl has eventually been replaced by Spotify, that means changing Hull City to Hull Tigers is a good idea? Really? Is that the best you can do? Wow.

  8. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    So WE don’t remove comments? don’t you look silly? Must be my computer illiteracy.

    I can accept the comments been removed just not the lie Les.

    How many other comments get removed that you do not agree with? I engaged in a debate, was challenged on my views and have a right to reply, obviously not on here, “Things We Think” and if you don’t agree “Fuck Off”.

    Copying and pasting is one of my new found CPU skills, so I’ll try again

  9. jimshady
    jimshady says:

    Jimshady, you write: “I don’t believe people should back down and throw away their values”, yet in your previous posting you write: “One side has to be the bigger man and back down.” I’m really getting confused now. Which is it?

    Back down AND throw away your values, not OR. I believe you can back down and keep your values, in life it happens all the time. For example, if you voted Labour (or possibly UKIP for some cunting, cunting posters on here with no constructive comments) and get a Tory
    /Lib Dem coalition, you could accept it and you can still keep your values (that’s what most people do). Or you could leave the country and find somewhere that shares your values. Or you can protest and demand the powers that be step down or change their position (that’s what Allam would do). I understand that could lead to more confusion, but not everything in the world is just black or white.

    I’ve said what I would do if I was against the name change or if I was in Allams position, I ain’t just going along with it. I like the name “Hull Tigers” and thing it’s worth giving it a go, that is also the only way it can be proved if it would bring in more investment.

    And some don’t want the investment or loan from Allam Marine?? Don’t want to spend £10,000,000 current international players? Well I like the PL and welcome the investment, I enjoyed watching City play in the lower leagues but have grown to like watching top quality football and want to keep watching it. People who would rather be watching Hull ‘City’ in the lower leagues just baffle me?? But again that’s ‘my’ opinion, I understand not one that’s widely welcomed here on, “Things WE Think”.

    Can I ask this? If lending yourself £100,000,000 at 5% per year interest is such good business sense. Why aren’t other muti-millionaires queuing up to buy the club (or every other club) outright for £100,000,000 with the same interest rate or even higher? I don’t proclaim to know the answer to this. Just can’t imagine business advisers saying, “Hey, I’ve got a great way to make money, invest it into a football club with no assets, that could be worth shit all in league 1 in two years time”.

    It’s very naive to think Allam has no chance of wining an appeal, hiring expensive lawyers who line up to take ‘our’ money, is probably what Allam should have done the first time round. I mean, expensive lawyers never turn around the most improbable cases OJ!
    62% of the FA committee were against the initial proposal, that means quite a few people who voted were for it. I can only foresee the improved appeall gaining more votes for the name change.

    As my initial post queried, 1,800 CTWD supporters against the name change is not a lot from the 30,000+ genuine Hull City supporters across the globe. The “No to Hull Tigers” brigade can keep your values but where are they getting you, the fans who support the Allams have let you have your say, it is now becoming disruptive and I for one am getting tired of it all. Judging by the Boo’s!! (which I don’t support, I propose, “Tigers! Tigers!” would be more appropriate) so are a lot of other people who just want to enjoy the match and support their team regardless of a minor change to their historic name.

    It’s not about proof or going along with it. Most fans support the Allams and are not offended by the idea of being called “Hull Tigers”.

    Times change and it’s always going to upset the minority. I used to like buying vinyl records, now I prefer to stream music on Spotify. A minority still prefer to purchase vinyl, the majority prefer to stream it. Some traditionalists believe that music should just be heard live and would not even listen to recorded music!!

    I remember one old timer I worked with who wouldn’t watch an England World Cup game because it was broadcast on ITV! (he listened to it on the radio instead) That’s values!!

  10. JohnK
    JohnK says:

    Thanks Mr. Muggins, your way of having an argument is calling me a soft c**t, shame that Amber Nectar don’t moderate these posts. Just so that you know, not that I guess you would care, you are clearly a very offensive individual.
    Les, don’t judge my comments by the location of my IP address, you have no idea were my location is, were I travel etc. and please don’t think that you need to be permanently within a Hull postcode to have an opinion.
    So what is the answer from the “No” camp to the booing at the KC last night in response to the anti name change protestors?

  11. Titface
    Titface says:

    The battle for the name change has been won once, and will be won again. After last night, in my eyes anyway, there has been a much bigger battle been fought and lost which nobody seems to have noticed, the battle for the soul of our club. Even without a name change, even if allam does one tomorrow, I don’t think I’ll ever attend another game again, everything about the club is unrecognisable from the one I fell in love with 25 years ago, some of it for the better, but way too much of it for the worse, most significantly of all, the pathetic, spineless excuse of a fanbase we now appear to have in our midst. The thought of sharing emotions with that lot makes my skin crawl, 25 years man and boy, but now, I’m out.

  12. Barney Gumble
    Barney Gumble says:

    Jesus, the cranks are out in force today. Les doesn’t screen the posts. If he did some of the utter toss spouted on here wouldn’t be burning my eyes now.

  13. Andy
    Andy says:

    See your attempts at CTID on 19:04 against West Ham where met by an equally loud chorus of boos. To which you responded with “Where were you when we were shit”. Not only are you alienating the best owner we have ever had, but you are willing to create infighting with your own fans.

    It seems the silent majority has finally spoken out. You don’t represent everyones view so stop acting as you do. That was made quite clear on Monday.

    If you don’t like the way the club is being run, here’s a suggestion.. Take a leaf out of Man U fans book and go and form your own club AFC of Hull City. You can dictate exactly how that club is run.

    I’m a fan of 30 years and a season ticket holder. I was there when we were shit but you don’t represent me.

    Now shut up, and let us enjoy the best period in this clubs history.

  14. North stand
    North stand says:

    Said it before the game. Allam has spent money not just on forums like last year but on importing fans for games to be vocal and cause problems. Next media report may include confrontation, all good for Allams hearing and very cheap.

    North stand

  15. gjhdurham
    gjhdurham says:

    Seemingly ignored, or seldom stated on threads, but seems to me that the booing was in response to SBs appeal to support the team….so some interpreted the CTWD chant as anti his request. Yes, I know the chant is not new, but it’s gained new significance. Personally, I miss “The Tigers! The Tigers!….” We all know why that’s not done…more’s the pity.
    Saddened and embarrassed by all this off field rubbish. Went to meeting last night and had two Smoggies trying the Hull Tigers wind up, which I ignored. It’s getting irritating…
    I note the comments about post deletion above. A time ago, when I first posted, someone took to posting fakes under my name. I note the statement that 4 people have such board access….Beware the “History ” thread on Not 606, as some of those fakes have been copied there! I hope the culprit is suitably amused…

  16. GeeJay
    GeeJay says:

    Any chance you could suggest CTWD drop the 19:04 chant? Then we might avoid the brewing nastiness of fans against fans. We could concentrate on the game and avoid distracting the players. I know all the arguments about whose at fault in the first place but we’re just digging ourselves into trenches here.

  17. Tyneside Tiger
    Tyneside Tiger says:

    #59 A minor change to the name.

    Would love to know what you consider a “major” change.

    I’ll say it again there is no evidence whatsoever of the name change having any value so why on earth bother with it.

  18. HanoiTiger
    HanoiTiger says:

    I just came across this quote from the late Bobby Robson when he was manager of Newcastle United FC:-
    “What is a club in any case?”
    “Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it.
    ” It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes.”
    “ It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.”
    “ It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.”

    Wise words Mr Robson – Mr Allam, take note.

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